apocalipsa electrica Countdown to Extinction

[Bala]

Mai sunt pe gaz in constructie cum ar fi cea de la Mintia. 

[Ciprian01]

Cu toate cele explicate totusi, imi puteti spune va rog de ce trimitem si Moldovei, daca noi avem deficit pe electric?

Intreb fiindca eu am o colega moldoveanca, care e de vreo 8 ani in Ro si de sarbatori i s-a oprit curentul. Intr-o gluma, i-am zis, lasa ma ca va dam noi, la care ea mi-a raspuns, stai fara grija, are cine sa ne dea.

Izoland faptul ca ea mananca in Romania si primeste bani europeni, in loc sa plece la mama Ruskaia, mie nu imi e clar de ce ajutam in continuare puturosii aia.

[mgi]

Fiindcă sunt "frații noștri di piesti Prut". Chiar dacă mulți dintre ei sunt niște jeguri pro-ruse care își falsifica documentele ca să ia pașaport românesc, sau iau bani de la UE pentru diverse scopuri în timp ce îl preaslavesc pe putin 

[Ciprian01]

Tocmai! I-as fi lasat sa defileze in intuneric.

[mgi]

In alta ordine de idei, cum se degradeaza bateriile masinilor electrice. 

Nu mi se pare foarte tragic, bazat pe datele astea.

 

[ebay]

Priceless https://www.farcebook.com/share/r/17Gtcpid1M/

 

[FiveThreeFive]

On 1/21/2025 at 11:22 AM, alex230ro said:

[...] as zice ca sansele ca Romania sa investeasca in centrale nucleare tinde spre zero[...] Eoliene plus solar au prins "viteza" deoarece investitia este mai mica vs nucleara plus ca nu se intampina asa multa rezistenta din partea "publicului" plus sprijinul dat de stat / UE pentru energia " verde" .

Inteleg foarte bine. Imi cer scuze ca am ramas fixat pe acest subiect, ca o moara stricata, dar sunt in continuare dezamagit atat de impredictibilitatea cat si de disponibilitatea capacitatilor instalate de energie eoliana si solara.

Am extras de pe site-ul Transelectrica productia in ultimul an (23 ian. 2024 - 23 ian. 2025). Rezulta ca, in medie pe un an intreg, puterea electrica generata eolian a fost de 697 MW, iar solar de 239 MW. Media pe un an deja netezeste orice particularitate de moment data se starea vremii si reprezinta o stare de fapt.

Comparand cu capacitatea instalata, plus o marja care sa compenseze faptul ca in 2024 s-au tot instalat capacitati noi, rezulta ca eolian producem in medie cca. 25% din capacitatea instalata, iar solar cca. 15%.
Deci costul per MW putere eolian este de min. $5.2 milioane, ceea ce depaseste costul per MW putere al unui reactor Candu6. 

In lumina celor de mai sus, nu inteleg care e catch-ul de a-i tot da inainte cu energia eoliana/solara, atat timp cat inca nu ai asigurata balanta energetica a tarii din surse fiabile si predictibile. Capacitatile de productie eoliana si solara ar trebui sa fie capacitati suplimentare, de care sa poti beneficia atunci cand vrea natura.  Bate vantul si e soare, opresti centralele pe gaz si te bucuri sa iti iese curent electric eco. Nu e nici vant si nici soare, nu ramai cu camasa afara din pantaloni, nestiind de unde sa mai scoti curent sa iti acoperi balanta energetica. Valabil nu doar pentru Romania, ci la nivel EU. S-au blocat europenii intr-un fanatism eco fara contact cu realitatea, sau este ceva ce imi scapa?

[alex230ro]

23 minutes ago, FiveThreeFive said:

IS-au blocat europenii intr-un fanatism eco fara contact cu realitatea, sau este ceva ce imi scapa?

100%  -cumva se poarta treaba asta cu verde fara a studia efectele pe termen lung sau daca ajuta in mod real cu ceva

[bogdanx]

Quote

S-au blocat europenii intr-un fanatism eco fara contact cu realitatea, sau este ceva ce imi scapa?

Nu iti scapa nimic - daca citesti toate analizele cu ce s-a intamplat in EU si de ce s-a ajuns in situatia asta se va vedea ca e datorita diverselor politici green, celebrul Green Deal - vorba aia si-au taiat craca de sub picioare.

- nu poti sa impingi politici asa orbeste fara sa iei in considerare efecte sociale, economice, chiar si culturale.

Pentru sursele alternative, solutia pe care o vad eu este sa faci locatii de stocare, practic depozite de curent.

Trebuie investitie, nu stiu cat de eco este, dar altfel nu prea ai cum. Langa fiecare parc sau oras cu o pondere mare de prosumatori sa se faca un depozit de baterii, unde se stocheaza ce se produce extra.

Iar lumea sa plateasca "chirie" pentru acea stocare.

[Bala]

Nu e nimic SF aici. E logic si normal ce face UE. Cu mici tampenii ici/colo

Daca nu sustii eolian/solar si nu instalezi pe fonduri, e foarte greu sa pornesti industria asta. Cu cat comanzi mai mult, cu atata se va investi mai mult in ele si tot odata pretul va scadea. 

O eoliana acum e mult mai ieftina ca acum 10-15 ani. 

E ca la masinile electrice. Erau mult mai scumpe pe vremuri. 

O baterie de 80kWh care e relativ banal acum, costa mult mai mult. Le-a incurajat o perioada iar preturile au scazut, performantele au crescut etc. 

fara un stimulent e greu sau trece mult timp pana se schimba ceva

[FiveThreeFive]

32 minutes ago, bogdanx said:

sa se faca un depozit de baterii, unde se stocheaza ce se produce extra.

Deocamdata, noi inca avem o problema serioasa cu a produce extra. Din aceleasi date pe ultimul an, rezulta ca 31% din timp am produs extra si am exportat, iar 69% din timp am fost in deficit de productie si am importat. SI mai interesant, media de export a fost de 675MW, iar media de import de 882MW. Insist, valori medii pe un an. Nu e greu de vazut ca, atunci cand nu e nici soare si nici vant din belsug, suntem fii ploii.

In ceea ce priveste stocarea, stiu ca in trecut se folosea pe post de "baterie" pomparea apei in amonte in baraje, si apoi transformarea ei in energie in hidrocentrale, cand era nevoie. Ramane de vazut daca intr-adevar avem nevoie de baterii de stocare, sau facem asta pentru ca este la moda. Similar: este un avantaj major sa cumparam autobuze electrice pentru transport urban, sau doar e o moda de moment ca alternativa la a extinde reteaua de troleibuze.

26 minutes ago, Bala said:

E logic si normal ce face UE.

Pentru binele nostru comun, sper sa ai dreptate. Mai exact, ma rog sa ai dreptate.

Edited 11 hours ago by FiveThreeFive
Corectie text

[Alex3245]

Eu cred ca problema este timpul @FiveThreeFive, daca vrei sa faci o centrala deobicei dureaza 10-11 ani pe cand panourile se fac foarte rapid. Pe termen lung centrala castiga cu siguranta dar ai de asteptat 10-11 pe cand cu panouri poti acoperi o parte din pierdere rapid.

Dezvoltarea ar trebui sa mearga in paralel, sa incepem sa facem centrale nucleare si montarea de panouri solare.

Daca ai o problema acum cauti o solutie sa te rezolve temperor si apoi aplici solutia pe termen lung.

[Viper05]

2 hours ago, Alex3245 said:

 

Daca ai o problema acum cauti o solutie sa te rezolve temperor si apoi aplici solutia pe termen lung.

eu nu vad asa problema. solutia temporara ar fi sa cumperi curent( ceea ce si facem) . solutia pe termen lung e sa faci centrale

[mgi]

https://www.ft.com/content/b950086b-8671-47c2-9f8b-e546debd346b

 

❝ Brussels has promised to help Europe’s embattled car industry potentially by using pan-EU subsidies to boost demand for electric vehicles.

Teresa Ribera, executive vice-president of the European Commission, told the Financial Times at the World Economic Forum in Davos that officials were still “shaping” options for an incentive programme.

“It makes sense to see how we could figure out in a pan-European perspective, how to facilitate the measures instead of going through national subsidies,” Ribera said. She warned against a “race where we could be confronting one national model versus another one”.

German Chancellor Olaf Scholz on Tuesday divulged that the commission was considering an EU subsidy programme that he had proposed. The German government scrapped its own scheme abruptly in 2023, leading to a plunge in EV sales.

Many EU member states offer incentives for EVs, but the terms vary widely and several member states offer no purchase subsidies at all, according to the European Automobile Manufacturers’ Association.

One challenge for Brussels would be designing a scheme that would conform with WTO rules while avoiding the subsidies flowing to Chinese carmakers, whose share of the market is fast growing.

Ribera admitted there was a “complicated balance” to be struck between rapid electrification and “a mismatch with the capacity of the European brands to provide in terms of quantity and quality what we would like to see moving on our roads”.

The commissioner, who is responsible for the EU’s “green industry” strategy, said a possible incentive scheme would be one of several measures to support a sector deemed vital for Europe’s economy. Europe’s carmakers “needed a comprehensive view on how to update their capacities and to catch up in what is already being demanded worldwide,” Ribera said. By contrast, US President Donald Trump vowed this week to end “unfair subsidies” for EVs.

Ribera, a socialist and former deputy prime minister of Spain, ruled out delaying the 2035 deadline for ending new sales of internal combustion engines because the car industry wanted “predictability and clarity”.

“It doesn’t make sense to open again the discussion when that provides some certainty and would punish the first movers that took it seriously without any potential advantages to those that still need to move,” she said.

But she said she was open to flexibility on the annual EV sales targets and the fines carmakers face for missing them. Ribera said there was an “open conversation” with carmakers about alternative commitments they could make in terms of investment.

Carmakers have complained that paying fines will only hamper their EV investment plans while buying credits from Chinese EV makers helps Chinese competitors.

Ribera said it was important to “ensure that this legislation is being applied in such a way that facilitates what is the main goal” of phasing out petrol and diesel engines.

She also said she was open to extending technology transfer requirements for foreign carmakers who wish to establish manufacturing facilities inside the EU. Brussels said last year it would require foreign companies that received EU grants for battery development to share some technology with local partners.

There is a “good lesson to be drawn” from China, which set strict joint venture and tech-sharing requirements when European carmakers set up factories there 30 years ago.

Beyond the car sector, Ribera said she was willing to broaden the available measures the commission could take to benefit European industry.

Ribera said she would look at local content requirements to shield European turbine manufacturers which are facing fierce competition from Chinese companies.

Shares in European wind turbine makers took a battering from Trump’s first policy announcements, including suspending new offshore project leasing.

Ribera insisted the EU would stay the course on decarbonisation, despite Trump’s move to abandon the 2015 Paris agreement on emissions reductions, of which she was one of the architects.

The devastating fires in Los Angeles showed that the US was already suffering the effects of climate change at great cost, she said.

“The world is much larger [than the US] and there are many other partners and players that do understand why it is important to remain united,” she said. ❞