BMW 520 g30 power loss 30CP

[Getreizecimiu]

Hello, 

Am fost pt un stage 1 la al meu 520 g30 si am avut surpriza dupa masurarea pe dyno sa aflu ca masina are de fapt 160 de cai din cei 190 pe care ar trebui. A fost verificata si nu are power reduction. Masina zic eu e in toate mintile are 110k Km.

A mai patit cineva ? Aveti idee care ar putea fi cauzele pentru un power loss atat de mare ? 
 

multumesc anticipat!

[Viper05]

Poate gresesc dar din cate stiu puterea motorului si puterea la roata sunt doua chestii complet diferite

daca au masurat puterea la roata , ca pe acolo da..

[wolf20]

Daca mai e si xdrive,ai prea multi…

[WIN60]

De multe ori se intampla ca la Bmw sa fie un power mai redus decât ce scrie im carte din pacate.. rare sau foarte rare sunt cele care se apropie de valoarea din carte sau chiar sa depășească. 
 

De aia nici o mașina nu e la fel. 
 

Si in loc sa ajungă la 240 cp aprox, îți va ajunge la 210 aprox, nu?

[bimmer90f30]

Dyno Numbers - The Truth

Chassis dynamometers are a great tool for measuring an engines power, both at the wheels and at the flywheel. They do this by measuring the torque against the engine speed and then calculate the hp using the following equation:

Hp = Torque X RPM / 5252 

This in principle all seems fine, but just how accurate is the data you are getting from the dyno? Well, the simple fact is this, not all dyno’s are the same and all dynos will produce different power figures on the same vehicle on the same day. A chassis dyno has to be able to calculate the losses from the wheels right back to the flywheel to get you a flywheel figure, so how does it do this? Well this is where the inaccuracies come and the ability for a dyno operator to be able to provide any chart he wants you to see.

Some of the factors which affect dyno readings are:

• Gear selected for the run. For a dyno to be as accurate as possible it needs a gear ratio of 1:1 or as close as the gearbox allows. This is usually 4th on manual gearboxes but always best to look up the ratios of the gearbox fitted to the vehicle. Using a lower gear than the one closest to 1:1 will reduce the power figures.

• The drum inertia settings. Most dynos have adjustable settings for drum inertia meaning you can change the weight of the roller settings. What does that matter you ask? Well the final power reading is relative to the drum inertia as the engine has to spin this mass to provide the acceleration. An assumed heavier roller will inflate the Hp readings, reducing the mass of the roller will lower the final Hp readings.

• Transmission losses. There are two types of losses you can apply to a wheel Hp dyno run to calculate the engine power, measured losses and % losses. A measured loss is basically a high speed run down where it calculates how long the vehicle takes to decelerate in Neutral from the red line, the faster it runs down, the higher the losses due to higher mass and vice versa. The other, % loss, is literally as it says, you apply a % loss to a chart of a made up pre-determined figure which has no real accuracy to it. If you want to show higher engine Hp figures, you simply increase the % losses and vice versa.

We always tell our customers to get a vehicle checked on the same dyno both before and after the tuning has taken place, without a before run the modified run is literally pointless as there is no base for comparison. To demonstrate this point check out the following three charts which are all the same run on the dyno:

Sursa:

https://www.celtictuning.co.uk/dynos/dynamometers

 

@Viper05 

https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/modp-1005-drivetrain-power-loss/#:~:text=However%2C when dyno testing in,according to published SAE data.

[Getreizecimiu]

1 hour ago, WIN60 said:

De multe ori se intampla ca la Bmw sa fie un power mai redus decât ce scrie im carte din pacate.. rare sau foarte rare sunt cele care se apropie de valoarea din carte sau chiar sa depășească. 
 

De aia nici o mașina nu e la fel. 
 

Si in loc sa ajungă la 240 cp aprox, îți va ajunge la 210 aprox, nu?

A scos 204 cp dupa stage-ul facut! Masina merge impecabil si overall sunt multumit de rezultat dar eram curios sa vad unde au fugit cei 30 de marlani :)) 

10 hours ago, Viper05 said:

Poate gresesc dar din cate stiu puterea motorului si puterea la roata sunt doua chestii complet diferite

daca au masurat puterea la roata , ca pe acolo da..

Aici n as sti sa iti zic, am sa documentez. Poate ne lamureste cineva.

[Getreizecimiu]

1 hour ago, bimmer90f30 said:

Dyno Numbers - The Truth

Chassis dynamometers are a great tool for measuring an engines power, both at the wheels and at the flywheel. They do this by measuring the torque against the engine speed and then calculate the hp using the following equation:

Hp = Torque X RPM / 5252 

This in principle all seems fine, but just how accurate is the data you are getting from the dyno? Well, the simple fact is this, not all dyno’s are the same and all dynos will produce different power figures on the same vehicle on the same day. A chassis dyno has to be able to calculate the losses from the wheels right back to the flywheel to get you a flywheel figure, so how does it do this? Well this is where the inaccuracies come and the ability for a dyno operator to be able to provide any chart he wants you to see.

Some of the factors which affect dyno readings are:

• Gear selected for the run. For a dyno to be as accurate as possible it needs a gear ratio of 1:1 or as close as the gearbox allows. This is usually 4th on manual gearboxes but always best to look up the ratios of the gearbox fitted to the vehicle. Using a lower gear than the one closest to 1:1 will reduce the power figures.

• The drum inertia settings. Most dynos have adjustable settings for drum inertia meaning you can change the weight of the roller settings. What does that matter you ask? Well the final power reading is relative to the drum inertia as the engine has to spin this mass to provide the acceleration. An assumed heavier roller will inflate the Hp readings, reducing the mass of the roller will lower the final Hp readings.

• Transmission losses. There are two types of losses you can apply to a wheel Hp dyno run to calculate the engine power, measured losses and % losses. A measured loss is basically a high speed run down where it calculates how long the vehicle takes to decelerate in Neutral from the red line, the faster it runs down, the higher the losses due to higher mass and vice versa. The other, % loss, is literally as it says, you apply a % loss to a chart of a made up pre-determined figure which has no real accuracy to it. If you want to show higher engine Hp figures, you simply increase the % losses and vice versa.

We always tell our customers to get a vehicle checked on the same dyno both before and after the tuning has taken place, without a before run the modified run is literally pointless as there is no base for comparison. To demonstrate this point check out the following three charts which are all the same run on the dyno:

Sursa:

https://www.celtictuning.co.uk/dynos/dynamometers

 

@Viper05 

https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/modp-1005-drivetrain-power-loss/#:~:text=However%2C when dyno testing in,according to published SAE data.

Bomb, merci mult! Am scris aici in ideea in care ma gandeam sa nu fie vreo buba pe undeva. Am verificat masina inainte sa merg sa fac upgrade si raportul primit a zis ca e ok, injectoare egr dpf etc si am zis sa nu fi patit ceva intre timp.

Eram curios daca a mai patit cineva sa am o directie cand ma apuc de verificat. 
 

Am inteles in mare parte acum care i treaba. Merci inca o data! 
 

[WIN60]

La completechip la București mi a ieșit 157 stock fără dpf cu evacuare făcută. După soft a ajuns la 204 cp.

 

Dragos a zis ca nu are nici o explicație pentru mașini care au pierdut atâția cai… pot sa fie injectoarele sau alte lucruri sau pur si simplu atâta scot ele din fabricatie. 
 

Eu ma gândeam ca al meu fiind motor de pe F20 pus, ala e motivul, dar nu contează după cum vezi. 
 

 

Asa cum măsoară cei cu dyno puterea, asa o măsoară si cei din fabrica, pentru ca multe ies aproape de adevăr sau cat au ele in carte. 
 

Uitati ca pe farcebook la completechip sau powertech Buzău sa vedeti cat scot stock Bmw urile. Sau chiar si la alte firme. 
 

ce a pus Bimmer acolo, este una din Explicațiile pentru care valorile pot sa difere mult. Contează standul, contează persoana care face dyno.

Edited April 16, 2023 by WIN60

[Viper05]

@bimmer90f30 da la aia ma refeream

[Getreizecimiu]

10 hours ago, WIN60 said:

La completechip la București mi a ieșit 157 stock fără dpf cu evacuare făcută. După soft a ajuns la 204 cp.

 

Dragos a zis ca nu are nici o explicație pentru mașini care au pierdut atâția cai… pot sa fie injectoarele sau alte lucruri sau pur si simplu atâta scot ele din fabricatie. 
 

Eu ma gândeam ca al meu fiind motor de pe F20 pus, ala e motivul, dar nu contează după cum vezi. 
 

 

Asa cum măsoară cei cu dyno puterea, asa o măsoară si cei din fabrica, pentru ca multe ies aproape de adevăr sau cat au ele in carte. 
 

Uitati ca pe farcebook la completechip sau powertech Buzău sa vedeti cat scot stock Bmw urile. Sau chiar si la alte firme. 
 

ce a pus Bimmer acolo, este una din Explicațiile pentru care valorile pot sa difere mult. Contează standul, contează persoana care face dyno.

Eu facut la TCM stage ul si prima masuratoare a fost la 160 si rezultatul undeva la 204. Acelasi lucru l-am auzit si eu ca pot fi diferite cauze de la bujii la injectoare. Injectoarele le am verificat la Bforce si valorile erau ok, pe tester nu pe banc. 
Am vazut la ei(tcm) pe instagram si masuratoare stock pe acelasi model la 190cp cat scrie in talon. 

Aparent erau si niste erori pe care am sa ma duc sa le rezolv next week si o diagnoza completa.

 

https://ibb.co/JdyJCGz
https://ibb.co/z7wGTBd

[WIN60]

Eh poate fi si de la eroarea aia egr. 

[claudiu1892]

Salut. Ai depistat de unde era pierderea de putere?